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By nssimpson
#5101
Hi Everyone

This is a bit of a complex issue so I was hoping for some helpful advice :please:
  • The range holder of our 0345/0845 number is Virgin Media (VM).
  • The number has been ported over to Voipfone so it's sitting on BT's IPX.
  • We want to move over to Yay.com, who have their own IPX system.
Yay have a porting agreement with VM but not one with BT. However, we've been told that a porting agreement is only necessary between the gaining provider (Yay) and the range holder (VM). Yay simply send over a sub-port from to BT instructing them to allow the number to be ported out. Yay then send the main port form to VM to instruct them to route the number to their IPX and since they have a contract in place this should all work fine.

Yay have tried this twice but BT keep rejecting the sub-port form saying that they have no porting agreement in place.

I've actually spoken to BT's port team and they've told me that no porting agreement is necessary for a sub-port form. VM has also told me this. However, Yay can't get my number released because BT are refusing to do anything.

Have I correctly understood the process and what else can I do?

Cheers

Nick

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By nazgull
#5105
If you ported the number over to Voipfone from Virgin Media then Voipfone need to authorise the porting request made by yay.com and not BT.

Voipfone charge a fee to port out.

https://www.voipfone.co.uk/PB_Porting_Numbers.php
if in the future you need to port any number(s) away to a different provider, there is a fee of £20 + VAT to cover the work involved of dealing with the gaining provider and reprogramming our network so that calls route correctly to the (new) gaining provider.
By nazgull
#5107
Voipfone should be sorting this out and they shouldn't be passing you on to BT. An example, if you port a mobile number from Vodafone to Asda Mobile then that number is owned and managed by Asda Mobile even though Asda Mobile is a virtual network using the EE network. Even though the number is on the EE network, EE can't do anything with the number as a block is put in place allowing only Asda Mobile to authorise any changes and ports.

When you say Voipfone have authorised the port do you mean that you have filled in the porting agreement form and paid the £20 plus VAT fee and that Voipfone have accepted it?
User avatar
By WelshPaul
#5109
nssimpson wrote: Fri 8th December 2017, 13:15 Hi Everyone

This is a bit of a complex issue so I was hoping for some helpful advice :please:
  • The range holder of our 0345/0845 number is Virgin Media (VM).
  • The number has been ported over to Voipfone so it's sitting on BT's IPX.
  • We want to move over to Yay.com, who have their own IPX system.
Yay have a porting agreement with VM but not one with BT. However, we've been told that a porting agreement is only necessary between the gaining provider (Yay) and the range holder (VM). Yay simply send over a sub-port from to BT instructing them to allow the number to be ported out. Yay then send the main port form to VM to instruct them to route the number to their IPX and since they have a contract in place this should all work fine.

Yay have tried this twice but BT keep rejecting the sub-port form saying that they have no porting agreement in place.

I've actually spoken to BT's port team and they've told me that no porting agreement is necessary for a sub-port form. VM has also told me this. However, Yay can't get my number released because BT are refusing to do anything.

Have I correctly understood the process and what else can I do?

Cheers

Nick
Hi Nick,

I have some high contacts at Voipfone and have just spoken to one about this. He is going to look into this and get back to me. however, it will probably be Monday before I hear anything as the department that deals with number porting is closed on the weekend.

Hopefully Voipfone will be able to resolve this for you...
User avatar
By nssimpson
#5112
Thank you both for replying.

Voipfone has accepted the port request from their end and I've even emailed Voipfone and Yay together and given them permission to discuss my port request amongst themselves. Yay are quite new to porting but from what they're telling me it's BT that has to deal with the sub-port request.

I'm not sure what else I can do from my end. WelshPaul - any contacts you can ask about this I'd be really grateful for :grinning:

Cheers

Nick
User avatar
By WelshPaul
#5113
When a sub port happens, ALL providers should have agreements with each other in my opinion. Sadly this isn't the case and as a result, number ports with IPX are a bit of a nightmare. :-/

Yay will have no control or say in this, either the port request is approved and the number moves over to the Yay network or the port is denied. Voipfone are the only ones who can look into the the issue with BT and from what you posted above it looks like they are. :)

I believe it works something like this (I might be wrong):
Yay request the port > BT receive the request and they notify Voipfone > Voipfone approve the request or deny the request > BT process the request and the number is moved over to Yay, or the port request is denied by BT as instructed by Voipfone, or the port fails for some other technical reason.

So all Yay can do is re-submit the porting request.

If Yay.com are new to porting, i'm guessing that Yay.com don't have any agreements in place with BT and that's why the port request is failing? Anyway, I will update this topic again when I get an update from my contact at Voipfone...
User avatar
By WelshPaul
#5114
nssimpson wrote: Mon 11th December 2017, 09:34WelshPaul - any contacts you can ask about this I'd be really grateful for :grinning:
So, I have just had a reply from my contact at Voipfone who in turn spoke to one of the top level techs and it appears that it is the case that ALL providers need agreements with each other for subsequent ports. As such, it's likely that Yay.com doesn't have any porting agreements in place with BT, and that is probably the reason why the porting request keeps getting denied. If that is the case, they should set one up.

If it is true that Yay.com doesn't have any porting agreements in place with BT then they likely don't have any with VM or any of the other major telecoms providers either and that would be shocking! Your best option is to contact Yay.com and ask them if they do or do not have a porting agreement with BT because if not, you will not be able to port the number over to them. :-/
User avatar
By nssimpson
#5115
Hi WelshPaul, thanks for the replies and your efforts :-D

Yay has a porting agreement with VM and a few other providers. Apparently they've been trying to set up a porting agreement with IPX for almost 12 months now and they still don't when this will be finalised ! :omg: They're saying that their legal teams are still negotiating but seems a bit odd to me.

I have been told that because the number is with VM they should only need a porting agreement with them (which they have). The sub-port form needs sending to IPX and they should check with Voipfone and process it even without a sub-port form. However, sounds like this is open to interpretation and whoever has picked up the request at IPX is being very unhelpful.

So perhaps I should port the number to VM for them to host. Then Yay will only need to deal with VM. Bit of a PITA though!

Cheers

Nick
User avatar
By WelshPaul
#5116
nssimpson wrote: Mon 11th December 2017, 15:05 Hi WelshPaul, thanks for the replies and your efforts :-D

Yay has a porting agreement with VM and a few other providers. Apparently they've been trying to set up a porting agreement with IPX for almost 12 months now and they still don't when this will be finalised ! :omg: They're saying that their legal teams are still negotiating but seems a bit odd to me.

I have been told that because the number is with VM they should only need a porting agreement with them (which they have). The sub-port form needs sending to IPX and they should check with Voipfone and process it even without a sub-port form. However, sounds like this is open to interpretation and whoever has picked up the request at IPX is being very unhelpful.

So perhaps I should port the number to VM for them to host. Then Yay will only need to deal with VM. Bit of a PITA though!

Cheers

Nick
If Yay.com has a porting agreement with VM then yes, you could port the number back from Voipfone (BT IPX) to VM and then port it over to Yay.com. Like you stated above, what a PITA!

Just be careful that you don't commit to a new minimum term with VM when porting back as doing so will prevent you from porting out to Yay.com. :-/

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

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